Dan Thomson, of the All About Worship Team, recently had the opportunity to interview Canadian worship leader and songwriter, Chris Bray:
For those who may not know you, can you share a bit about yourself and where you’re from?
I’ve been married for four and a half years. My wife Katie and I have two little girls, Molly, who is two and a half years old, and Norah, who just turned one. I originally grew up in farm country in south-western Ontario. When we got married, we decided to settle in a small town close Katie’s roots.
What motivated you to become a songwriter?
Peer pressure. I just wanted to play electric guitar in a rock band. I had no aspirations to sing or write music, but it was something that was encouraged, and eventually led me to grow in that. The more I started song writing, the more passion I realized I had for it. In the last 8-10 years, I’ve really felt a calling to writing songs that people can relate to and use as a tool to aid them in their spiritual journey closer to Christ.
I understand you’ve had the opportunity recently to co-write with other professional songwriters in Nashville. Who were they and how did that experience help you as a songwriter?
This spring when I was in Nashville I had some writing sessions with a couple of guys from the Word/Warner music group. The first was Michael Farren from Pocket Full of Rocks and the second was Paul Alan who has a song on Point of Grace’s latest album. Both guys are very talented song writers, and it was exciting and humbling working with them.
I could relate well with Michael because of his heart for worship and sharing his experiences ministering to people on the road for so many years. I also appreciated Paul’s discipline in business and his commitment as a husband and father, taking care of his family, while still being open God’s plan for his life with respect to music.
I felt like I had developed my song writing skills on my own as much as I could and that I had plateaued. So many songwriters stay in that rut, and write the same kinds of songs over and over again. Forcing myself to write with others (especially more talented writers) was like flexing my writing muscles, introducing new ideas that challenged me, allowing me to get stronger and nurture the gifts God had given me. I personally think it’s something that needs to be done continually.
You are an independent artist and songwriter. How do you manage to get your music into the marketplace and have the opportunities that you’ve had to open for major artists such as Matt Maher and Point of Grace?
I’ve realized along the way that nurturing relationships for both business and ministry is extremely important. When you look at most circumstances in life, the choices you make are usually based on the recommendation of someone you trust. If you need a plumber, you go ask your neighbour who they use. If you need a dentist, you ask a friend. As a musician, a recommendation from someone who can influence the decision makers can go a long way. Even more especially in Church and ministry. A pastor doesn’t want just anyone coming in front of their congregation introducing concepts that may not align with the churches beliefs, etc.
I’ve been blessed to have a wonderful management team to help me develop as an artist, take some of the burden off of me so I can focus more on ministry, and to facilitate the relationships I wouldn’t normally be able to on my own.
Being based in Canada, with a lot of the gospel music industry being based out of the United States, how do you go about releasing your music and how has the Canadian marketplace embraced your music?
Christian radio in Canada has been so welcoming, and I’ve been blessed to have the opportunities that I have. Stations have fewer and fewer spots for “new” music and the few spots available are extremely competitive to get, just because there’s so much great music out there. Promoting a new record and a new single is a lot of work, but it’s worth it. I know so many artists that spend the money to make a great record, and then don’t remember to budget for promotional efforts. Then I start to think, what was the point of spending all that money if no one knows about your music and you have 950 of the 1000 copies you got pressed sitting in your closet still?
Christian radio and retail distribution have taken my music from “the local worship leader” to a more national level. Even today, beyond my belief, my music is reaching and ministering to people across the continent, and that’s an amazing opportunity I feel honoured to have.
What would you say to encourage other songwriters or worship leaders who may want to get their music heard?
I think it’s important to recognize that there are various methods to distribute your music and by not getting radio play or retail distribution, doesn’t make an artist’s song less effective. A recent example I have with my own music is a slow melodic ballad I wrote with another local artist called, “Pursue Me”. I never intended it to be a “radio” song; it was more of a prayer to God. But a friend of mine led it in worship during a youth pilgrimage to Medjugorje . He said it turned into their theme song by the end of their mission trip because it spoke to them and allowed them to worship God effectively.
First off, I was honoured that a song I had a hand in writing was able to be used for that purpose. Secondly, I don’t feel that song is any less effective because it didn’t chart on radio. It served a great purpose and additionally, that song was nominated for “Inspirational Song of the Year” for this October’s Canadian Gospel Music Association Covenant Awards.
Artists—share your music every way you can (YouTube, MySpace, Facebook, worship events, radio, television, retail, iTunes, etc.). But personally, the songs I’ve been most touched by aren’t the ones I’ve heard on the radio. It’s the ones I’ve seen live, where the artist shares the story about the circumstance in their life that inspired the song, being able to relate to it myself and leave feeling touched. It’s the songs I’ve had an “encounter” with.
Something that I’ve had to learn along the way is to forget about the accolades, the awards, and the charts—because there is always going to be someone better. Work towards creating opportunities for people to encounter your songs. Keep focused on Christ and His plan for you.
When you travel and lead worship, you also speak for Compassion Canada. How has being an advocate enhanced your ministry?
My wife and I always “talked” about how it would be a good idea to get involved, but it took us a long time to put those words into action. When we finally did, our eyes were opened. We realized how good we really have it here in North America. How many people around the world suffer and go without. We realized that in our cushy lives, some days our biggest burden was getting our pizza delivered and they forgot the extra sauce, or ordering an ice cream cone, and they ran out of sprinkles. We didn’t know what it meant to go without like so many in our world do today.
We sponsored Marianna from Columbia and we instantly saw a change in our family. We started to see interest from our girls to write letters and draw pictures for her, to pray for her, and we were excited that we had the opportunity to bestow those values in our children at such a young age.
We really felt called to share that with others, which is why we have partnered with Compassion—to free more children from poverty, give them the opportunity to learn about Christ and to help folks that have been blessed, experience the graces received from giving and sacrifice (even though it is a relatively small sacrifice).
A question that we ask at the end of all All About Worship interviews: if you weren’t able to be involved in music, what would you be doing?
God only knows. If you would have asked me that question in my pre-teens, I would have said an action hero—most likely Superman, but I would settle for Batman.
Dan Thomson, one of our contributors, recently had the opportunity to interview worship leader/songwriter/blogger – David Santistevan.
Dan: As a Worship Pastor and Young Adults Pastor, how do you organize your time with your team(s) to be ready for services each week?
David: With my worship team, I’m fortunate to work with some skilled, passionate young players who come prepared.
We use Planning Center as our home base of communication where our musicians can reference the weekends they are scheduled and come prepared to rehearsal. This enables us to rehearse on Saturday before our Saturday night service and skip a weekday rehearsal.
It’s pretty rare for a musician to show up on Saturday unprepared, which is amazing. It hasn’t always been this way!
Dan: Do you try to introduce original music in your worship services? If so, how often and what is the response from the congregation?
David: Yes, we do. Most songs typically take 2-3 weekends before they catch on. What I’ve found is that the original songs we write are embraced by the congregation even more than other songs. I’m not sure why, other than the congregation believes in what we’re doing. And, hopefully because the songs are good.
I’m currently trying to introduce one original song a month. We just finished a songwriting retreat with our team a few months ago, so there’s a lot of songs we’re working on finishing and introducing. The hard part is finishing the songs! Sometimes you just need to call it done (for now) and test it out.
Dan: How long have you been blogging and what gives you the drive to write as many as 5 articles per week?
David: Believe it or not, I’ve actually been blogging for about 4 years. I started blogging just because a few close friends said I should. I had no vision or strategy for it. It was random and not very good. Barely had any readers.
About 9 months ago I decided to get more serious about it as a way to extend my influence and have a ‘home base’ for my ideas and ministry. I have a passion to teach so it’s been a great outlet for that as well. I write so often because I challenge myself to do it. I think it’s a great habit for everyone to write every day. Whether they have a blog or a journal or scribble on napkins doesn’t really matter.
Writing has made me a better thinker, artist, pastor, and leader. Positive feedback, blog growth, and having a passion for my niche keeps me going as well.
Dan: Your blog seems to have a lot of participation through comments and social media sharing. What topic would you say has brought the most feedback?
David: Anything worship related gets the most feedback and sharing. I was nervous that narrowing my niche would exclude readers and shrink my blog. It’s only grown as I’ve invested in this niche of worship leading in the local church. Second would be when I write about blogging. I think that’s because bloggers are online more than non-bloggers, so they’re always devouring content.
Dan: If you had one word of advice to give worship leaders, what would it be?
David: Invest your best energies into loving God with all your heart. “Passion for Jesus” is not a one-time event where you then move on to more practical matters. The practical aspects of worship leading are important but nothing can fuel a life of worship leading other than falling more in love with Jesus every day. Guard that passion with your life.
Dan: You are a Pastor and blogger, but you are also a songwriter and in 2008 recorded a worship album entitled “Near”. Can you tell us about the project and how that came about?
David: Recording “Near” was a dream come true for me. I’ve always wanted to record a worship album of original songs because my life was shaped by worship music as a youngster. I spent more time than I’d like to admit listening to Matt Redman, Vineyard, MorningStar, and Hillsong.
I wanted to release what was inside of me. The album was the result of a long season of physical suffering. I had an undiagnosed disease for over a year where I was unable to walk up stairs and lift up my hands, let alone play my guitar and sing. I laid down my passion for that year because I had no choice. Many of the songs were written without me actually singing them because I was so sick. But they were breath in my lungs as I poured my heart out to God through it all. He’s been so faithful.
Leave a comment on this post for your chance to win David’s CD – Near. We’ll pick 3 random winners. Deadline is September 6th. You must be a U.S. resident and at least 18 years old.
On this episode we sit down with Michael Gungor in person and talk about music, ministry, and more.
Wisdom and Ben also discuss the upcoming All About Worship Retreat. Join us live online as we stream the Night of Worship on May 20th at 7:30pm CST at livestream.com/gracevideo
Also on this episode:
-We say farewell to our long time sponsor of the podcast.
-Share exciting news about the launch of Sounds of Redemption, the new nonprofit ministry that will become the parent ministry of All About Worship.
-Chat with our friend, Joel Klampert, about Forge Conference coming up.
-Feature a song written by one of our Plus Members who is participating in our monthly songwriting challenge.
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Leave a comment on this post for your chance to win a free registration to Forge Conference. Tell us why you would like to win the free registration. Deadline: Friday, May 27, 9pm CST.
Imagine yourself on a big stage with hundreds of people looking at you. You’ve got a band of musicians and singers behind you ready to take cues from you. You’re holding a guitar in your hands and singing amazing worship songs into a microphone. The spotlight is on YOU…
I’ve been leading worship for over 12 years now. Before I was an “official” worship leader, I started out as the transparency guy (back in the day) when I was in 7th grade. Then, I learned drums from my youth pastor and learned guitar from the choir director. Then, I was involved on my youth group’s worship team as a bass player. And, eventually became the lead guy as a freshman in college. In my 12 years of leading worship, I’ve experienced first-hand what it’s like to be a volunteer worship leader as well as a full-time worship pastor.
When I first started leading worship as a young college student, I had the oddest experience. After leading worship at the Sunday morning service I would go home and feel VERY down and depressed. I couldn’t figure out why. I would come home from an amazing worship service where I really felt the presence of God while leading, but spend the afternoon feeling so discouraged and depressed.
As I continued to grow and mature as a worship leader, I began to realize what was happening. I realized that I was putting my identity in being the “worship leader”. My identity was so wrapped up in my role of leading worship and leading the youth worship team that it sort of became an addiction.
Leading worship became the highlight of my week. Yes, I loved the Lord! I was passionately in love with Jesus! However, I let the experience and “high” of leading worship become an idol in my life. I was essentially addicted to worship leading.
When I was in the congregation while someone else was leading worship, I found myself judging their worship leading and comparing myself to them. I was either jealous because they were better than me or full of pride because I was better than them.
During my recent conversation with my friend, Michael Farren, I was reminded of how I wrestled with finding my identity in the title and role of worship leader. The fact that I was a child of God (who was crazy in love with me) was not enough. I had to get my fix of leading worship.
In my current season of ministry I am ministering and training up worship leaders more than actually leading worship myself. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I led worship in the past 2 years. It feels a little weird sometimes, but I’ve grown to be content in being led in worship by others.
I no longer rely on the title of “worship leader” to define me. I don’t find my identity in it. I no longer treat it as a spiritual high or addiction. I no longer somehow feel more spiritual because I’m leading worship…
Yes, from time to time those thoughts try to occupy my mind, but I’ve learned not to allow any title or role that God may bring for a season define who I am. I am content just being me…even with no title people may envy…and no important role in the spotlight.
Worship leaders, beware of the addiction of worship leading. Don’t let worship leading define who you are. Worship leading is something you do; it’s not what defines you.
article written by Wisdom Moon
(guest post by Ryan Egan)

He was experiencing the push back that many of us have experienced when trying to introduce more modern music into a traditional setting. He was giving and appreciative of the more traditional side, but the other party was plainly opposed to his more modern taste. His response, and the heart of his response, was phenomenal.
Instead of getting frustrated, complaining, leaving, or otherwise, he was patient. And he said to me, “I’d sacrifice my contemporary music in order to be united in worship as a church body any day.”
While many reading this might not be in a situation where two different musical styles are fighting for dominance within the church, his attitude is one we as worship leaders can adopt in almost every situation in which we find ourselves:
Jesus’ ministry of coming “not to be served, but to serve” (Mark 10:45) did not end with him. We are clearly called by Jesus (Matthew 20:16), Paul (Romans 12:3), Peter (1 Peter 5:3), and James (James 2:1), to serve others willingly and joyfully. While we can never compare any type of sacrifice we offer to the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus gave for us, we can apply this concept in our ministries.
As those who are tasked to present an accurate picture of who God is in order to worship him rightly, one way we can do that is by demonstrating His character. What do you need to sacrifice as you head into this new year of ministry that will serve others and allow them to succeed?
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by Ryan Egan
Here’s a great interview with Matt Redman. He discusses songwriting, inspiration, leading worship, and spontaneous singing. Matt also talks about how he, to this day, does not know how to read music.
Be sure to check out Matt’s latest album “We Shall Not Be Shaken” on iTunes.
Once in a while, an article on worship comes along that is not only entertaining to read, but also filled with great truths. I stumbled upon such an article when I read “Ten Secrets of Life I Learned While Leading Praise”, written by Phil Christensen, in a recent Integrity Music Newsletter. Phil is the worship pastor at Stonebridge Church in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I hope you enjoy reading this article as much as I did!
-Barry Westman

After interviewing hundreds of psalmists, I can safely say that worship leaders are a special breed. They nurture the souls of sensitive singers, and encourage brusque sound guys to be … less blunt. They see the gifted drummer within a goofy nine year old. Worship leaders sharpen their mastery of Scripture and musical chops in the same week. They calmly walk into meetings where they’ll receive near-lethal doses of personal criticism.
Through it all – praise God – these worship leaders will somehow emerge with tender, Davidic hearts. I suspect it’s all part of God’s greater strategy in conforming us to the image of Christ; pressure turns coal into diamonds, and the constant rub of a grain of sand creates a pearl. The unique pressures of a psalmist create a unique kind of perspective and character.
Such “Worship Team Wisdom” probably contains the essence of what we need to know about life; it worked pretty well for King David. Over the years, I’ve repeatedly found myself drawing on principles learned while working with worship teams; I’ll share here my personal top ten bits of Worship Team Wisdom.
God is the Supreme Economist; He never allows one teardrop more than is absolutely necessary to complete the good work He began in us. Along with the pleasures and the pressures of His calling, may we always clearly sense the presence of Him Who is our Wisdom. (1 Corinthians 1:30)

This week on the All About Worship Podcast, Wisdom and Ben take a moment to semi-celebrate two years of podcasting partnership between the two. Wisdom remembers his favorite moment with Ben on the podcast. Our UH-MAZING field correspondent, Mandy Thompson, talks to worship leader, songwriter Keith Getty, co-author of “In Christ Alone” about the songwriting process and more. Stay tuned for their song “By Faith” on the show. We also hear your feedback and share some worship leading tools. Stay tuned for a brief sleeping aid recording with Ben and Wisdom after the listener feedback.
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A special thanks to Keith Getty for being a part of the show! Thanks once again to our friends at WorshipPlanning.com!
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Episode 54: Keith Getty
Reaching back to a prior post where God was really teaching me some good lessons. There are seasons in ministry life…and this was a time where I needed some good reminders.
Recently I attended a short conference for Worship Leaders and Pastors. It was something I needed personally
and really came at an integral time for me. The conversations there brought back to remembrance the cause I have been called to as a Worship Pastor. There were great insights and reminders for me, one of them being the need to remember every leader must allow space and openness for failure.
Failing Forward
Since taking on the role of worship leader at our local church some seven – eight years ago, I’ve learned that some things will always be. There will always be a desire to achieve perfection…and there will always be failure. Balancing these two certainties in ministry can be quite an act. There are a few principles that can help.
Each week there is a review of our weekly services between our Senior Pastor and myself. We sit down and walk through the most recent worship service talking about anything from reviewing the time, the flow, the technical, the spiritual, the good, the bad, ugly and amazing. We’ve been doing this for many years now and find it very helpful in our desire to continually improve the worship experience at Grace Church. One of the factors we understand as being important, is the need to fail.
I’ve had conversations with fellow worship team members, fellow ministry leaders, fellow worship leaders and leaders in general about this topic. It’s difficult to grasp the importance of allowing failure to happen during a weekend service. Some folks are of the belief that there should NEVER be a mistake made…and if there is one…heads must roll. Not exactly the best environment to thrive in. There are others who believe, “Hey…it’s just the church man….let it ride…it’s not a rock concert”. This one is not helpful and will ensure disaster week in and week out. While it’s true church is not a “rock concert”, the attitude of letting the same failure happen each week is not bringing your best before the Lord. Really both attitudes can be cancerous to any team environment.
A principal that I’ve adopted and truly believe in, is the need to allow team members to “Fail Forward”. Taking a risk by letting a “green” musician step up and fill a gap, even if conventional wisdom might tell you to NEVER allow that person onstage is creating an attitude of “failing forward”. Taking a risk by allowing a unique stage setting be implemented…even if it means the band will have to readjust how it sees the other band members is creating a culture of “failing forward”. Or perhaps adding an element to a worship service that might seem out of the ordinary or completely unorthodox to what your church body is used to. Whatever the case, I’ve learned that an environment of being open to failure is critical. If you don’t take those risks, you might be missing out on something amazing that could become an integral part of your worship time. Allowing a younger/newer musician on the team to play that solo, or lead that song, gives them that one additional step in their ministry service journey which molds them into a more mature musician…and more importantly, a more mature Christ follower.
When you adopt an attitude of openness to failure, you begin to create an environment on your team that allows people to take risks without the fear of rejection. I’ve tried hard to communicate to people on our Weekend Service Team (lighting, audio, video, band, stage etc) that it’s ok to fail…just make sure you’re learning from the failure. Make note of the environment surrounding the moment the failure happened. Asking questions like these:
I’m sure we could each come up with our own list of questions…these are just a few. Whatever your questions are, make sure you’re asking yourself something in order to ensure you and your team are “Failing Forward”. If we aren’t failing…we aren’t taking enough risks to improve ourselves and the ministries we lead.
For a righteous man may fall seven times
And rise again,
But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
(Proverbs 24:16)

On this episode, Wisdom is joined by Billy and Cindy Foote as they discuss worship leading, songwriting, and adoption. Billy Foote has written many congregational worship songs like: “You Are My King”, “Sing To The King”, and “You Are God Alone”. Ben and Wisdom also discuss Star Wars, bolts, Mexican food, and our upcoming retreat.
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